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    Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

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    martinlest2

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    Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by martinlest2 on Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:09 pm

    OK, here we go, another post on my first day. It's another query about the CS 727 - I have had it some years but haven't flown it in a long while.

    It's pretty much OK, but one thing I can't get to work at all is the LNAV function.. I have a flight plan loaded and the AP works on HDG mode, but no matter what I try, the aircraft ignores my flight plan when I engage NAV/LOC, it is still governed by whatever heading setting I have and continues to fly on that heading. I can't get the ILS to work either, but to be able to follow the flight path would be great as a first step (I don't recall having this issue last time I flew the a/c, but as I say, it was rather a long time ago). When I engage the NAV/LOC, the two yellow NAV/LOC  lights do come up (the green HDG is still illuminated too), but it doesn't actually follow my flight plan, even so.

    I am usually pretty OK with this kind of plane, I manage to get most a/c I have, ancient or modern, to engage their LNAV, whether it's via INS/Civa, the CDU or whatever, but after literally hours now Googling, the CS a/c seems to have defeated me in this regard. Am I missing something obvious?

    Many thanks,

    Martin
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    jaydor

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by jaydor on Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:22 pm

    Is there a button to press to disengage the GPS to VLOC to capture the decent? Also have the height setting been activated in the flightplan?

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by Admin on Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:26 pm

    it has been a while since I last flew the 727 as in most things by CS the aircraft looks great but under the sheets the systems are not so good, I will change hard drives and give it a try but probably not be able to answer before tomorrow

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by Admin on Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:57 pm

    whilst waiting for fsx to boot up I was pondering this question , and then the remaining brain cell started to work, we didnt have LNAV back then!!!! my first commercial flight was in a 727 for eastern airlines albeit RH seat LNAV didnt come out till many years later. The autopilot back then had trouble enough holding a course or an altitude , rarely both at the same time, and navigation was from VOR to VOR with the odd mandatory or non mandatory reporting point determined by cross referencing two VORs or a VOR with DME, so to give CS their due I would not expect the 727 to have let alone follow LNAV,
    geez we hadnt even dreamt of gps back then !!!
    I notice on the gps under the engine instruments it is placarded naviagtion is prohibited maybe this is a clue?

    In my day , and the law by and large remains today for calculating descent it is 3:1 ie 3 miles distance for every thousand feet of descent so for 35000 feet to 3000 feet the distance is 96 miles
    Sadly the cs 727 is not the best flight model around so you can beat these figures it is too draggy
    I hope this answers your question
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    ddavid

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by ddavid on Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:02 pm

    I think a review is in order, Captain. Could you knock one up for us?!?

    Or, better still, one of your 727 stories...

    Cheers - Dai. Cool

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by Admin on Sun Jun 26, 2016 10:40 pm

    Dai I think we have just about done them to death , dont you? as in most of my memories it was 99% boredom , 1% frantic activity , however i would be willing to impart some lessons gained from other peoples adventures as the few that i can recall are published at our old home where they were discredited, such is life eh?
    as for a review on the cs 727 sadly I would be very critical of it, hopefully one day someone will make a study version of it for our sim which i would be happy to review, because at the time it was an incredible a/c tremendously overpowered, especially with the second generation engines it can still fly higher than the current crop of Boeings
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    martinlest2

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by martinlest2 on Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:25 am

    Hi...I used the term 'LNAV' just as an abbreviation to cover the NAV/LOC switch of course, and in NAV/LOC mode, the a/c is supposed to capture the flight plan and track it. The b707 does the same, and some even earlier aircraft had this function too of course. I think it was developed from the late 1950s onwards, but I'd need to 'Google' that, so don't quote me!... The 727 could certainly do this (I have cockpit videos of the real aircraft which show this happening) and the CS 727 has brief notes in the documentation indicating that switching to NAV/LOC should engage the flight plan tracking...

    On my flight last night (just after I posted this question), the 727 captured both the localiser and the glideslope, so all was well there. Well, not 'all' as it still refused to follow the flight plan en route. I read through the AutoPilot instructions again for this aircraft, but couldn't see anything there that would explain the problem. The only thing I can think of is that the a/c is locked in NAV mode instead of GPS mode, which would certainly explain why the approach worked, but not the 'LNAV'... I tried switching between NAV and GPS mode using the FS9 keyboard shortcut, which didn't work, but I'll try again - maybe I'll add a NAV-GPS switch to the cockpit.... I think FS9 might need to have an aircraft in GPS mode in order to follow a flight path, even if the original aircraft did not have a GPS system... One of its 'endearing' little quirks. (Again, that's not supposed to be a definitive statement about FS9, but I think it's valid!).

    I don't think the CS727 is a bad plane myself - it responds well to hand flying for example. As I said, it's some years since I last flew it, but I've been enjoying the experience. (Been flying the TinMouse 737-200 too, along with a Civa INS and ADEU I added to it - makes quite a refreshing (and sometimes challenging!) change from flying the Dreamliner, or whatever!

    Thanks,

    Martin

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by Admin on Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:48 am

    I think you may have hit the nail on the head, most a/c have a switch placed somewhere to allow the change from nav to gps and this does not, , i wonder if anything is mentioned on the cs forum?
    I know from experience though the cs a/c (767 and 777) were quite buggy when it came to programming the fmc
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    martinlest2

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by martinlest2 on Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:17 pm

    OK, I added a NAV-GPS gauge to the cockpit, and as soon as I switched it to GPS mode, the 727 banked and started to follow the flight path!
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    jaydor

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by jaydor on Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:01 am

    Well done, what gauge addon did you use?
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    martinlest2

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by martinlest2 on Tue Jun 28, 2016 12:46 pm

    I have a number of such gauges - I used one which came from a Dornier 228. The gauge is simply called do228.gau and you add it to the panel.cfg as do228!NAVGPS.

    It may not be 100% authentic for a b727, but it's very clear to see which mode you are in. Made small size it looks pretty good in the cockpit - in fact it's not all that noticeable.

    It changes like this, looking either as the top or the lower image, depending of course on what you click (first box)

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    jaydor

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by jaydor on Tue Jun 28, 2016 1:08 pm

    Thanks for the update, glad you are now able to use both.. Happy landings..
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    martinlest2

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by martinlest2 on Tue Jun 28, 2016 2:37 pm

    .. just found that there is a NAV-GPS switch in the CS727 cockpit! Rolling Eyes Grey and anonymous, I'd no idea it was there, but it works. I think I'll keep my addition anyway.
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    jaydor

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by jaydor on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:10 pm

    I thought in my first answer to you, that one may be there.. Good find. You will have to show a screenshot for others to follow..
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    martinlest2

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    Re: Captain Sim (FS9) b727 - LNAV?

    Post by martinlest2 on Tue Jun 28, 2016 3:52 pm

    A little below the three runway marker lights.. grey unlabelled button with a black notch... to the left is NAV, to the right, GPS.

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