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    SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

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    G-GMDH

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    SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by G-GMDH on Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:13 pm

    This afternoon I knocked up, in under an hour, the Island of Jersey in FSET at 1M/PIX resolution and 80% compression this gave a total of 33 Mb of storage required.




    Now compare it to the same area using 0.5M/PIX resolution and 100% compression this gave a total of 650 Mb of storage required.



    Both pictures are at around 1500 feet.

    Cheers, M





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    britfrog

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by britfrog on Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:18 pm

    i am currently running the same type of operation albeit on another region, it appears that there is little or no difference , other than file size, when my fset has finished what it is doing i hope to be able to confirm your findings mike, watch this space as they say.
    mind you my last itteration of Jersey came to some 1.66gb's which i did some months ago
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    donnybalonny

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by donnybalonny on Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:34 pm

    Its all about the source, the quality of the downloaded image.
    See my post in screenshots.
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    G-GMDH

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by G-GMDH on Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:11 pm

    Yes its all very interesting stuff and at the end of the day as DB says its the quality of the satellite images which are most important to us.

    However playing around with the internals of FSET has flagged up some interesting stuff.

    I for one are sold on the 80% in compression as it saves sooooooooooooooooooo much HD space.

    Looking forward to seeing some of your scenery very soon then Nigel.

    Cheers, M
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    kevinfirth

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by kevinfirth on Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:12 pm

    Out of interest, may I ask what source imagery you each decided to use and why please?
    Cheers K
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    G-GMDH

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by G-GMDH on Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:18 pm

    Hi K,

    I used Virtual Earth images as they are in focus and the colours and contrast are perfectly OK.

    However Google images look out of focus and the colours are very pale with not too much contrast.

    Now I need an accurate terrain mesh?

    Cheers, M
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    kevinfirth

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by kevinfirth on Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:30 pm

    Good luck with that one Wink
    The only detailed terrain mesh data is held by Jersey Island Government and they aren't giving it away free Sad

    I used the virtual earth imagery as well, but I couldn't really see any difference in resolution between the 1m and the 0.5m imagery :s It also had some annoying clouds over one of the southern peninsulas...

    How did you get accurate water and transparency masking for your virtual earth stuff please?
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    G-GMDH

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by G-GMDH on Wed Oct 28, 2015 10:39 pm

    I don't is the honest answer. Generally I just hand colour in near the coastline and then put the water mask from this line. I have been caught out several times now by using the water mask close to the coast and when you come to fly over the area FSX has put a lump of cartoon land in the water.

    So come on K spill the beans and tell us all how we should be doing this "BLACK MAGIC"

    Cheers, M
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    kevinfirth

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by kevinfirth on Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:26 pm

    I dont thinks theres any magic to it Smile

    In order to do an island like jersey you need to rework the hydro poly, the landclass and the photoreal scenery. They all need to share a common poly line which is the coastline, in order to see water right up to the shoreline in the scenery and to have land under your wheels where it should be!

    FSET will produce you the photoreal, but wont do the hydropolys or landclass, so the trick really is to be able to create one poly line that you can use in multiple apps.

    I use SBuilderX for the hydropolys and landclass. The easiest way to get a coastline in FSET is by way of a kml file created in Google Earth. What I've done then is use KML2SHP to convert parts of my GE coastline into an ESRI shp file. That can then be imported into SBX and used to create hydropolys and landclass that exactly matches the photoreal coastline. When it all matches you get visible water in sim in all the right places together with seamless transparency blending out to pure sim water.

    The only problem is that the only tool I know of to easily create kml files over satelite imagery is Google Earth and that obviously only displays Google imagery. When using virtual earth imagery with kml files created in GE I'm finding theres a slight geographic difference in georeferencing, which results in the water and photoreal coastline being out of synch by a few metres. To get it right I'm having to manually adjust every vertex in GE, save the kml, then reload in FSET to check its accuracy, and sometimes go round that loop quite a few times!

    K
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    donnybalonny

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by donnybalonny on Wed Oct 28, 2015 11:57 pm

    That all sounds very technical, In order to understand, I could do with some screenies of water to terrain transitions. That would be very interesting.

    I´m just doing the KML in Google earth and live with the small imperfections. IMHO its about knowing where to cut or in other words how close to go to the coastline and accept that it we are working with an image which is a kind of "frozen" or manipulated reproduction of the real world and not the real world itself. The real world is ever changing.

    Mike, if you have white squares, then I think its because you have not made the kml file correctly. If you "cut" the Coast and DeepWater lines in the wrong place, then the watermask wont work and you get white squares. You have to make sure that the two lines go well out of the FSET area that you draw later on.
    Its very difficult to explain in words and not very difficult to do. And maybe what I´m trying to say has nothing to do with what you are talking about. Neutral
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    G-GMDH

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by G-GMDH on Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:21 am

    That's just gone right over my head. Far too complicated for me. I think I will stick to my much easier way of doing things.
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    donnybalonny

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by donnybalonny on Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:40 am

    Mike, I will make a screenshot of a KML file that I will do today or tomorrow. I think it would explain it all.
    I do my kml very fast. Depending on the coast, It takes more time to paint it black.

    The way that you and Nigel do the coast is fine. In some places its superior because the coastline looks more natural, but where there are a lot of water, it makes everything very dark, muddy and sad looking. And since I dont take happy pills, I need to cheer up in another way, so I prefer blue and clean water. pirat
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    kevinfirth

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by kevinfirth on Thu Oct 29, 2015 12:57 pm

    Mike, similarly I'm not sure I understand how you're doing your water either :p Can you give me a quick bulletpoint outline to walk me theough it please? Theres always more than one way to skin a cat and perhaps I'm being overly complicated? Cheers K
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    G-GMDH

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by G-GMDH on Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:52 pm

    If I need the FSX Water Effects I first set FSET to MASK = YES and COMPLETE SCENERY = NO.

    Then on the pink masked BMP image I just black out the area for the FSX water effects. Then I recompile the mask folders to generate the bgl files.

    I do hope that NO CATS will be skinned in any of our processes whatsoever. Very Happy

    Cheers, M
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    britfrog

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by britfrog on Thu Oct 29, 2015 4:30 pm

    firstly let me confirm all of Mikes findings, i used the huelva region which is not as highly detailed as some, but to put it in a nutshell i also cannot tell any difference between the 100% and the 80% setting on my 2 -24inch monitors and i did zoom right in to roof tops to compare their fuzziness.

    I tried the 1m setting and also the .5m setting (0) in both 100% and 80% compression so I can recommend the 80 and the great saving in space


    Kevin for my part i use a cloning brush to reproduce the sea out to a good distance from the shore this makes the sea very realistic and then if i want to make a good job i blend it in to the normal sea a mile or more offshore. The problem that I have come across is because i use rex textures etc my sea is never the same colour as the stock fsx stuff , not that this bothers me. However when i see how complicated and time consuming the "proper" sea masking is i do not consider it to be a good trade off when you consider how much time you fly over it. its all about finding a good balance between time spent making something and tiime spent enjoying it.

    Ok for professional products I understand the need for a polished product, so the time needs to be spent but when i see the rubbish that megascenery sell, my half arsed method is way better than theirs, and much less time consuming.


    However I do at least want to know how to do it properly and am amazed at how quickly DB has picked it up, hats off to him!
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    donnybalonny

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by donnybalonny on Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:00 pm

    Mike, I think you know that you have to make a kml file in google-earth, save it in your work folder with the correct name before drawing your piece of scenery with FSEtiles.
    Then after that do as you wrote.
    I will do a screenshot very soon of my way, which is fast, of doing kml files and the problems I have encountered. I cant explain it with words
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    britfrog

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by britfrog on Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:15 pm

    I cant speak for Mike but I never use .KML files for my photoscenery, there is no need
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    kevinfirth

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by kevinfirth on Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:39 pm

    My experience is similar to Donnys..kml is easy to use and can produce the best results. K
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    G-GMDH

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by G-GMDH on Thu Oct 29, 2015 6:45 pm

    Hi again Kevin,

    Yes I have drawn and made kml files but honestly couldn't see the point in the end.

    Your offer of putting up some screen shots, a picture paints a 1000 words, would be greatly received by me and other forum members I'm sure, many thanks.

    Cheers, M
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    donnybalonny

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by donnybalonny on Thu Oct 29, 2015 8:38 pm

    britfrog wrote:I cant speak for Mike but I never use .KML files for my photoscenery, there is no need

    The word need is difficult to understand. But I agree, my needs may be different than others. In the end its a matter of preference.
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    britfrog

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by britfrog on Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:25 pm

    DB has sent me his first attempt at photoscenery and i have to say it is very well done, yeah as he would acknowledge there is the odd little error but i have to say very impressive, i will post a few pics later.

    I think the only criticism i can give , and I know Mike wont agree with me, is that personally i find Ve/bing too dark, whereas GE is brighter/lighter, ve looks like it was taken late afternoon in autumn google midday in summer.

    yeah I know it is a personal thing !!
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    G-GMDH

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by G-GMDH on Sun Nov 01, 2015 5:15 pm

    Hi Folks,

    I just did a "test area" (Caldey Island in West Wales) for the water mask thanks to Kevin and DB kind assistance and to be honest GE are far better on colours than VE although for the UK are years out of date. I agree the VE images are more to the winter time as a lot of them have ground frost showing up. Also in South Wales around Cardiff and Newport in VE it seems very hazy and the colours dull whereas in GE the colours are sharper and look more natural.

    NO Nigel I am not redoing ALL of the UK in GE. The thought had crossed my mind though!!!!!!! Cool

    M



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    donnybalonny

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by donnybalonny on Sun Nov 01, 2015 6:08 pm

    Nigel, i dont think you can make to many rules about the tiles.
    On the scenery that i sent you, Google looks crap, out of focus and with a lot of strong color changes.
    On other places where i have taken samples, google look the best.

    Its about taking samples and use what works the best in that area. Sometimes Chablis is better than Gewurztraminer, Bourdeux better than Bourgogne and Ribera de Duero better than Rioja.geek
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    britfrog

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    Re: SPOT THE DIFFERENCES IN HOME MADE SCENERY

    Post by britfrog on Sun Nov 01, 2015 8:19 pm

    no i agree from experience there are times that VE looks very good , it has to be on a per area base , i just wish i could get a good server for the Bahamas

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